FIGURE 8 NATIONALS

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  FIGURE 8 NATIONALS
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572bigblock
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Re: FIGURE 8 NATIONALS
« Reply #30 on: Feb 19th, 2010, 6:27pm »

its a pretty ghetto fix, huh. lol

it works, though
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madmax
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Re: FIGURE 8 NATIONALS
« Reply #31 on: Mar 11th, 2010, 11:10am »

on Oct 2nd, 2007, 3:17pm, 572bigblock wrote:
It should be a lot easier to move waypoints now, instead of doing it manually like I did by messing with the coordinates and code. Now I can use modelers garage to click points and move them around.

look forward to seeing more figure 8s and circle tracks
maybe even a roadcourse. lol jk



Starting from square one.

1) What are waypoints?
2) What file (s) are they located in?

3) Modellers Garage?

4) I am hoping I can change the "waypoints" on your F8Nationals track and have the cars race on the big oval.

I just saw my first banger racing video. I know its been discussed before, but I intend to get a banger track done.

Any help will be much appreciated.

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572bigblock
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Re: FIGURE 8 NATIONALS
« Reply #32 on: Mar 11th, 2010, 7:34pm »

on Mar 11th, 2010, 11:10am, madmax wrote:



Starting from square one.

1) What are waypoints?
2) What file (s) are they located in?

3) Modellers Garage?

4) I am hoping I can change the "waypoints" on your F8Nationals track and have the cars race on the big oval.

I just saw my first banger racing video. I know its been discussed before, but I intend to get a banger track done.

Any help will be much appreciated.



Waypoints are points along the track that the AI cars follow. Without waypoints, the AI cars would have no idea where to go. Waypoints give them the general path that they take and they stick to it pretty closely. The "rubber grooves" that run around any figure 8 course run right overtop of the waypoints (they connect the waypoints). Actually, when you move a waypoint, the rubber groove moves with it. I had to turn the rubber groove transparent on the Figure 8 Nationals track because I had the path stretched out so big that the groove appeared blocky, like a hexagon.

Waypoints are located under the second block of text in the AIW files. next to wp_pos= is the coordinate of each point. They start at the start/finish line and work there way around the track until they meet back up. Waypoints can be added and removed by adding or removing the blocks of text they are contained in. At the top of it it says: [Waypoint]
number_waypoints=13


13 waypoints means 13 blocks of text. If you add or remove waypoints, be sure to update this number or you will have problems (crashing).


Modelers Garage is a 3d program that kind of specializes in the VRL and VRML format. You can import the AIW file for a track and actually move the waypoints around with your mouse, much like moving verticies in car editing. The alternative is expirimenting and writing in the coordinates for each waypoint manually. But I still havent caught on how to use Modelers Garage the right way. Whenever I select a point, I can't seem to unselect it. They tell me to press the Escape button to unselect, but it doesnt seem to work for me. and also, this program is the reason why 2 laps are counted as one in my Fort Dodge track. It was some sort of a glitch I guess. If you want to try Modeler's Garage out for yourself, go here: http://people.freenet.de/bobonen

I'm using version 0.681
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madmax
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Re: FIGURE 8 NATIONALS
« Reply #33 on: Mar 12th, 2010, 10:12am »

on Mar 11th, 2010, 7:34pm, 572bigblock wrote:
Waypoints are located under the second block of text in the AIW files. next to wp_pos= is the coordinate of each point. They start at the start/finish line and work there way around the track until they meet back up. Waypoints can be added and removed by adding or removing the blocks of text they are contained in. At the top of it it says: [Waypoint]
number_waypoints=13


13 waypoints means 13 blocks of text. If you add or remove waypoints, be sure to update this number or you will have problems (crashing).
This looks like alot of data entry and for me, guesswork.

Quote:
Modelers Garage is a 3d program that kind of specializes in the VRL and VRML format. You can import the AIW file for a track and actually move the waypoints around with your mouse, much like moving verticies in car editing.
Do I have to load in the track or can I simply load in the AIW file and start moving the waypoints? That would be NICE!!!

Quote:
I'm using version 0.681


And I just downloaded it

It's funny but the more I see about SCGT the more I like. I just joined an SCGT forum (not alot of activity). I may actually get this game and have some fun with it.
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Re: FIGURE 8 NATIONALS
« Reply #34 on: Mar 12th, 2010, 10:43am »

on Mar 12th, 2010, 10:12am, madmax wrote:
This looks like alot of data entry and for me, guesswork.

you're right. lots of trial and error. Change a coordinate, test it in the game, change a coordinate, test it in the game, ect, ect, ect.

on Mar 12th, 2010, 10:12am, madmax wrote:
Do I have to load in the track or can I simply load in the AIW file and start moving the waypoints? That would be NICE!!!


Load the AIW and go to work. I havent had much luck with it though. The program was designed for SCGT and F1 2000, so its a wonder it works at all.



on Mar 12th, 2010, 10:12am, madmax wrote:
It's funny but the more I see about SCGT the more I like. I just joined an SCGT forum (not alot of activity). I may actually get this game and have some fun with it.

I downloaded the demo and it always crashed. I guess i need an older computer for it to work on.
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madmax
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Re: FIGURE 8 NATIONALS
« Reply #35 on: Mar 15th, 2010, 12:22pm »

Been having a little fun.

I took your 30 Car starting grid and created a ProLevel "run what you brung" figure 8 race on the Zanesville track around the traditional course. 30 just creates a traffic jam, but 20 works not too bad. ALL in all a failed experiment hardly entertaining enough to hold ones attention.

I then port that grid over to create a 30 car Comp and 30 Car Full sized demogrid for regular bashing. It seems that if I add one car beyond 24 the game play for 10 seconds and crashes. Perhaps its my limited memory and old comp. However it is an interesting start to be nose to tail 2 cars wide to begin a derby.

Now that I have created a "Copy" of Zanesville, I am going to start moving those waypoints to create a "Banger Racing" style of game. My worry is that I will create a game where the cars run around the oval and make no attempt to hit other cars.

I am bouncing between whichever project is having the most success. I have a Killarney Small in the works and I am putting a little bit of time into that one as well as a Billy Bash Track.

« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2010, 12:23pm by madmax » Logged

572bigblock
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Re: FIGURE 8 NATIONALS
« Reply #36 on: Mar 15th, 2010, 6:33pm »

30 cars on small zanesville? lol that would be interesting. please keep us updated on those tracks with pictures.
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madmax
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Re: FIGURE 8 NATIONALS
« Reply #37 on: Mar 17th, 2010, 3:08pm »

on Mar 12th, 2010, 10:43am, 572bigblock wrote:
you're right. lots of trial and error. Change a coordinate, test it in the game, change a coordinate, test it in the game, ect, ect, ect.


Need a refresher of sorts.....

I started moving some coordinates thinking I knew what I was doing...silly me. Here is your start from the F8 Nationals.

I moved the coordinates in bold.

Quote:
[Waypoint]
number_waypoints=49
lap_length=-99999996802856925000000000000000000000.00
wp_pos=(16.9744,0.2536, 13.2964)
wp_ori=(0.0094,0.0000)
wp_width=(5.0,5.0,7.0,7.0)
wp_score=(-3,99999996802856925000000000000000000000.000)
wp_opt=(-0.000000000,1.38,-0.0887)
wp_depth=0
wp_ptrs=(48,1,-1,-2)


I did this with the entire set and sure enough the cars went around quite differently and the black pattern moved accordingly. However, I took the Zanesville F8AIW file and compared it to your NationalsF8 file and you barely touch those coordinates that I have bolded and yet the cars are using much more track. I went extreme to see where the paths go and changing the number to this...



wp_pos=(32.0085,0.2536, 26.6203)
wp_ori=(0.0080,0.0000)
wp_width=(5.0,5.0,7.0,7.0)
wp_score=(-3,-99999996802856925000000000000000000000.000)
wp_opt=(-0.000000000,1.38,-0.0887)
wp_depth=0
wp_ptrs=(0,2,-1,-2)

Didn't have near the effect. So...what should I be doing?
Changing the other coordinates?

What does each coordinate do again
« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2010, 3:09pm by madmax » Logged

572bigblock
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Re: FIGURE 8 NATIONALS
« Reply #38 on: Mar 17th, 2010, 5:47pm »

When you were comparing the stock Zanesville AIW to F8Nationals AIW did you compare the waypoint position for all waypoints? Close to the intersection they will share the same points and you wont see much difference, but choose a waypoint in one of the turns to compare and they will be as much as 40 units apart.


What effect were you after when you changed the waypoints to 32 and 26? It should have moved the points a ways away on the track. If you moved just the one point the cars may bobble towards the outward point you created, but for the most part will stay inline with the rest of the points. The AI cars dont have to pass through the points. The points just give them a general path to take. However, to be scored for a lap, they MUST pass through each invisible checkpoint. these checkpoints are 3d objects, and they are also listed in the SCN file. It is the waypoint's job to guide the AI through the checkpoints.


the only part of the waypoint codes that I understand is "wp_pos" (waypoint position). These are the coordinates for each point. I've played a little with the other lines of code and I dont think they really do anything. Or at least nothing stood out to me. I dont know what they are for.
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madmax
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Re: FIGURE 8 NATIONALS
« Reply #39 on: Mar 18th, 2010, 05:55am »

on Mar 17th, 2010, 5:47pm, 572bigblock wrote:
When you were comparing the stock Zanesville AIW to F8Nationals AIW did you compare the waypoint position for all waypoints?
I'm sure I did, but I had alot of files opened and it was late....erm.. early...I'll take a closer look tonight.

Quote:
Close to the intersection they will share the same points and you wont see much difference, but choose a waypoint in one of the turns to compare and they will be as much as 40 units apart.
Yes, I understand. I'll take another look at your file again.

Quote:
What effect were you after when you changed the waypoints to 32 and 26? It should have moved the points a ways away on the track. If you moved just the one point the cars may bobble towards the outward point you created, but for the most part will stay inline with the rest of the points. The AI cars dont have to pass through the points. The points just give them a general path to take. However, to be scored for a lap, they MUST pass through each invisible checkpoint. these checkpoints are 3d objects, and they are also listed in the SCN file. It is the waypoint's job to guide the AI through the checkpoints.
I had quickly doubled all the waypoints of the Zaneville original to see how big an F8 I would get and compare the layout to your National F8.

Forwhatever reason I got a path with some nice sweeping corners out to the bankedstraight then a turn back that was STRAIGHT across to the other banked straight then a sharp turn back towards the X of the figure 8 on both sides. It actually let 30 cars move pretty good with more crashes at the corners then the center. Its fun to play but looks goofy. Which is why I am asking these questions. It was a 12 minute test to get my bearings.

Quote:
the only part of the waypoint codes that I understand is "wp_pos" (waypoint position). These are the coordinates for each point. I've played a little with the other lines of code and I dont think they really do anything. Or at least nothing stood out to me. I dont know what they are for.


Ok, great!!! I think I'll bang off a few things this weekend for fun.



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madmax
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Re: FIGURE 8 NATIONALS
« Reply #40 on: Mar 19th, 2010, 05:59am »

on Mar 17th, 2010, 5:47pm, 572bigblock wrote:
The AI cars dont have to pass through the points. The points just give them a general path to take. However, to be scored for a lap, they MUST pass through each invisible checkpoint. these checkpoints are 3d objects, and they are also listed in the SCN file. It is the waypoint's job to guide the AI through the checkpoints.


I now have 30 cars doing an inside oval on the Zanesville circuit driving around the outside of the tires.

Am I to understand that in order to score a lap, I will have to open the massfile? Am I to look in the scene file to locate the name of these objects?

The only way to score a lap is the traditional way of driving through the centre and I want to move that to the outside.

So far the game is underwhelming as most cars fronts get bashed to yellow and then they overheat and its all over.

I would like to set the counter to 50 or 100 laps.

Or, I would like to keep the format of a Demolition Derby with last car standing and its over and the game recognises this and declare a winner.

The only difference from a demolition derby is that the cars have to follow the oval.

I watched this video and this is what I am trying to recreate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6PT5-2opfg

It may get as exciting the moment I try to create a banger big track.









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Re: FIGURE 8 NATIONALS
« Reply #41 on: Mar 19th, 2010, 06:00am »

on Mar 15th, 2010, 6:33pm, 572bigblock wrote:
30 cars on small zanesville? lol that would be interesting. please keep us updated on those tracks with pictures.


I'll get some pictures of both circuits up later this weekend.
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Re: FIGURE 8 NATIONALS
« Reply #42 on: Mar 20th, 2010, 12:10pm »

I have 4 Works In Progress based upon Zanesville. All begin with same starting grid as F8 Nationals




1) Zanesville inside F8 with 30 Cars.



2) Zanesville (Banger) that's really a bump race.



3 And the start is alot of fun


And I have a 24 Car demolition Derby for Comps and Fullsize with the start grid shown above.
« Last Edit: Oct 5th, 2010, 07:03am by madmax » Logged

572bigblock
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Re: FIGURE 8 NATIONALS
« Reply #43 on: Mar 20th, 2010, 12:35pm »

on Mar 19th, 2010, 05:59am, madmax wrote:
I now have 30 cars doing an inside oval on the Zanesville circuit driving around the outside of the tires.

Must be one big traffic jam

on Mar 19th, 2010, 05:59am, madmax wrote:
Am I to understand that in order to score a lap, I will have to open the massfile? Am I to look in the scene file to locate the name of these objects?

The checkpoints are 3-d objects found in the MAS file. They have different names depending on the track, but for Dixboro they are called XCHK000 through XCHK007. They are actually flat squares, visible on one side only. The visible side is the side the cars pass through. For the circle track you will need to open them up in Zmodeler and move them around as they need it. The center checkpoints over the intersection will need to be moved outwards, and the checkpoints in one corner will need to be rotated since the cars run one corner backwards on a figure 8. Make sure the cars pass through the checkpoints in order, otherwise you will need to make multiple laps to pass through all checkpoints before 1 lap will be scored.



on Mar 19th, 2010, 05:59am, madmax wrote:
I would like to set the counter to 50 or 100 laps.

Or, I would like to keep the format of a Demolition Derby with last car standing and its over and the game recognises this and declare a winner.

The only difference from a demolition derby is that the cars have to follow the oval.

I watched this video and this is what I am trying to recreate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6PT5-2opfg

It may get as exciting the moment I try to create a banger big track.


I'm not sure how to add laps to a race. There are a few easy ways to make multiple laps score as 1 lap, but as far as seeing the counter raise above 20, I have only seen that on Flash's head to head conversion track.
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Re: FIGURE 8 NATIONALS
« Reply #44 on: Mar 20th, 2010, 12:42pm »

on Mar 20th, 2010, 12:35pm, 572bigblock wrote:
Must be one big traffic jam
Yup!

Quote:
The checkpoints are 3-d objects found in the MAS file. They have different names depending on the track, but for Dixboro they are called XCHK000 through XCHK007. They are actually flat squares, visible on one side only. The visible side is the side the cars pass through. For the circle track you will need to open them up in Zmodeler and move them around as they need it. The center checkpoints over the intersection will need to be moved outwards, and the checkpoints in one corner will need to be rotated since the cars run one corner backwards on a figure 8. Make sure the cars pass through the checkpoints in order, otherwise you will need to make multiple laps to pass through all checkpoints before 1 lap will be scored.


Thanks.



Quote:
I'm not sure how to add laps to a race. There are a few easy ways to make multiple laps score as 1 lap, but as far as seeing the counter raise above 20, I have only seen that on Flash's head to head conversion track.


Ok, give me the easy way to make multiple laps score as one.

The Banger.. bump race needs more time to accumulate damage then will occur in 20 laps.


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